cultural confusion

[deird1]

I've been reading through Etiquette Hell recently, and came across this entry in the "Guests from Hell" section:

I have recently moved to California and was invited to a barbecue by some people who I considered to be well-mannered and good friends. The invitation, which arrived by mail stated that one should bring whatever one wished to put on the grill to eat. I was confused and called to ask exactly what that meant. I was advised that they would supply all side dishes, salads, bread, condiments and drinks. I, however, should bring my own hamburgers, hot dogs, chicken or whatever I wished to eat - raw- and I would be allowed to cook it on the grill for my meal. Still confused, I asked, "So I should just bring a piece of raw meat with me?" "If that's what you want to eat," they replied. They then expressed their own surprise that I was confused as that was the way barbecues are "done" in California. My friends in the South find this particularly ridiculous.

Now... I find this confusing. Is there some other way of doing barbecues that I've somehow been missing all these years?

I've been to an average of eight barbecues a year (at least) for my entire life, and at EVERY one, people have brought their own meat. Why would it be bad manners? And what were these people expecting to happen instead?

Comments

[chalcopyrite]

What I'd expect to happen -- and what it sounds like this person was expecting -- is exactly the opposite: the hosts provide what is going on the grill, and drinks, usually; guests bring side dishes/salads/dessert.
I wonder where the cultural shift line is? My BBQ experience is from Texas, mostly.

I can understand how this method means that everyone's preferences are catered for (and it spreads the cost of the most expensive component of the meal), but I can see why it threw this person off. I wouldn't call it bad manners, just a different way of doing things, but I've never encountered it before, either.


(Dropping in from Network because this was really interesting!)

[next_to_normal]

What I'd expect to happen -- and what it sounds like this person was expecting -- is exactly the opposite: the hosts provide what is going on the grill, and drinks, usually; guests bring side dishes/salads/dessert.

Yep, same here, and my experience is from New Jersey.

It's more of a potluck thing - instead of only bringing what you yourself will eat, each person brings one dish for everyone.

[deird1]

Hi!

I think the way we do it is also helpful because it guarantees a whole range of side dishes (rather than every single guest bringing coleslaw), and that there won't be too much - or not enough - meat.

[elisi]

And what were these people expecting to happen instead?
Well over here in the UK, the people holding the barbecue will buy a selection of meat (sausages, chicken, burgers, spears with vegetables & spicy chicken etc etc) which they will then barbecue and people can help themselves to what they want as well as any salad/side dishes/drinks.

I have never come across anyone bringing their own meat. It'd be like being invited to a dinner party and having to bring your own steak...

(Not that I can't see the pros to your approach, but it still strikes me as deeply weird.)

[gillo]

A lot of teenager barbecues seem to expect people to bring along contributions; many's the time I've delivered a daughter via Tesco Express so she could contribute food; often a salad as well as some meat.

[elisi]

Oh that doesn't surprise me - I'm sure I'll soon be in the same boat. :)

[gillo]

Ah yes; you have all that fun just around the corner. Parental Taxi Services, Inc...

[deird1]

In my experience, this is something that only happens with barbecues - possibly because most barbecues will expect that some of the guests will invite a couple of friends along...

[gillo]

As I said to Elisi, most of the barbecues my daughters attended as teenagers tended to expect folks to bring food - but, then, you have lots of impecunious young people and the parents providing the grill and a few basics.

In England the weather means barbecues are a risky proposition, and most folks throwing a barbecue expect to provide the meat and basic salads, with "frills" and bottles coming via the guests. I suspect that is so a backup plan involving an oven and an indoors room can go into action when (rarely "if") it rains!

[alexseanchai]

I have never in my life heard of this.

[swellen.livejournal.com]

It's become far more common in the last 20 years or so in Australia, but personally I hate it and I've never done it. I think if you can't manage to feed your guests you shouldn't invite them over. (I admit that is probably my parents' influence, who would never dream of asking a guest to bring ANYTHING, ever, not even wine.)

[slaymesoftly]

I've never been asked to bring my own meat to a hosted barbecue. I think, once in a while, when it's an organization's (like a big club of some sort) party and grills are being provided but members are bringing their own food, it may happen. At private parties (and usually smaller club functions at someone's home) the host provides the meats and does the grilling, and the guests may or may not be asked to bring a side dish. People often do bring something - but it's not usually a requirement.

[curiouswombat]

Well, I've heard of 'bring a bottle', but I've never heard of 'bring a burger' parties. Not that we have a lot of barbecue parties in our climate, but my daughter us ally goes to three or four over the summer - she takes a bottle of wine, or a dessert - I've never known her take meat - she would expect the host to provide that.

Definitely must be a cultural difference thing!

[lutamira]

Well, I've lived all over the US and I can safely say that:

1. Traditions do differ from place to place re: BBQ
2. The South is always more formal than other places
3. The tradition of bringing your own meat, rather than bringing salad/side dishes has as much to do with the fact that (especially in a place like California) at any given BBQ there are probably going to be vegans, vegetarians, pescetarians, and people who just want a burger. It is much easier to provide a section of sides that will please everyone than to provide for all the special protein needs.
4. BBQs where the host provides all the food, or where people are asked to bring sides only also occur frequently.
5. The person who wrote this complaint is being a bit ridiculous.

[lutamira]

ETA to say: the bring your own meat thing is TOTALLY standard for me, but then again, I grew up on the West Coast. I can safely say that BYOM(eat) is not rude and is in fact kind of expected in that part of the world. Based on others' responses, it may be that my gauge of the rest of the US is off, but I've been to BBQs like this in Washington State, Oregon and California. And Idaho, come to think of it.

[(Anonymous)]

This was going to be my reply.

I've always brought my own 'main course' and the host as provided the extras.

Maybe we're just pickier eaters over here. ;)

[deird1]

It is much easier to provide a section of sides that will please everyone than to provide for all the special protein needs.

Definitely. I'd much rather make sure that there was a range of sides than hope that people end up bringing different ones.

[blackfrancine]

I'm from Texas, and I'll just second the folks who say that we generally would do it the opposite way in that part of the US. Either the host provides everything, or the guests are asked to bring a side or drinks.

I honestly do find the bring-your-own-meat method a little strange. To someone from our tradition I think it probably seems a little... er... chincy? Like they're trying to have a party but get out of paying for it. Also, just the idea of carrying raw meat tossed into a handbag while wearing a sundress strikes me as funny.

[redsixwing]

That seems distinctly odd to me, and I don't think I've heard of people doing it that way here (Southwestern US).
I can see the benefits, of not having to worry about providing everyone's special protein requirements, but the downside of "the person ahead of me pulled raw chicken out hir bag, and I have no idea of how long it's been in there/if it's been handled to reduce the risk of contamination" would be a major hurdle for me.

[vass]

I've done it both ways. Not to mention the complications of being a vegetarian, which generally requires bringing your own just to be sure you'll be catered for.

[menomegirl]

Oh wow. I have never heard of an invitation to a BBQ worded that way. That would be considered extremely rude where I live.

I'll tell you how we do it:

We decide to have a BBQ, we set the date and invite people. We know by doing this the expense of our party is on us; we purchase the meat, the wood, the groceries for the side dishes and whatever desserts we decide on, the paper plates, napkins and cups. We buy sodas and at least two different types of beer. That is standard operating procedure.

Now, very often, people will call up and ask if there's anything they can bring. If they do, it's perfectly okay then to request something. So you tell them they can bring sodas or beer or maybe some of that wonderful banana pudding they make.

At this point in time (we've been married 30 years), we know pretty much who's going to call and ask right away and who's going to wait until the last minute to ask. We know who's going to show up on their own with chips or cakes or drinks or paper plates or that bottle of Jack or tequila. (We know who's going to get up early and drive over to actually help us cook and who's going to be helping us keep things washed up in the kitchen.)

But we don't count on anyone bringing anything when we invite people. We provide the majority of the stuff ourselves.

[deird1]

We know by doing this the expense of our party is on us; we purchase the meat, the wood, the groceries for the side dishes and whatever desserts we decide on, the paper plates, napkins and cups. We buy sodas and at least two different types of beer.

I'd pretty much expect to provide all of this except for the meat (and the wood - why wood?).

It's weird discovering all these different opinions on something I'd always thought was normal...

[menomegirl]

It's about seasoning. I don't know many people who BBQ who use *just* charcoal any more. It's all about the wood you use to flavor the meat.

[deird1]

How... bizarre and interesting.

Most people I know barbecue with gas.

[menomegirl]

Just gas? O_o

[padawanspider.livejournal.com]

Different types of wood can impart a flavor to barbequed meat that many people find pleasant. If one lives in an area where a desirable wood type does not grow naturally, one can purchase a bag of the desired wood (in large chunks) to cook the meat over. Hickory is one that immediately comes to mind. Some people in the USA do not consider the products of a propane or charcoal grill to be "true" barbeque.

[menomegirl]

Some people in the USA do not consider the products of a propane or charcoal grill to be "true" barbeque.

*nods* Exactly. :)

[velvetwhip]

I am from California and while I was never much for barbeques (I tended to shun outdoor activities), the few with which I was ever involved did not require invited guests to bring their own meat. Sometimes people brought side dishes. However, I don't suppose that in this economy it's the least bit shocking to me that this is being done now.


Gabrielle

[fenchurch]

I'm with everyone else... I've never heard of such a thing. Usually, guests are invited to bring a side dish or dessert to share while the hosts provide the meat. In recent years, it's been a lot more common for hosts to list the meats they'll be providing and indicate they'll be more than happy to throw anything you might want to bring onto the grill for you, in case you have some dietary restrictions, but that's really nothing like what you've outlined.

[rebcake]

I'm in California, and there are various ways of throwing a BBQ:

1. The hosts provide the space and the meat, up to and including an entire roasted animal on a spit (or multiples thereof), and probably a few kegs of beer. Usually this happens when the hosts have mucho acreage and there are lots of people and bands and stuff.

2. The hosts provide space, equipment, and a variety of foods, usually specified ahead of time. Example: we will have hot dogs and hamburgers to grill, and homemade ice cream! This allows people with dietary requirements that do not fit with the food being provided to bring what they require. I'd say that these days people with "dietary requirements" outnumber those that will just eat what's put in front of them.

3. The "hosts" name a day and a place, and everybody brings their own stuff and enjoy each others company. This is your standard potluck.

I'd say that the last one is becoming more popular, and not because the hosts are miserly. The guests are just as much at fault for this happening, because no matter how much trouble the hosts go to, there is somebody complaining that their specific needs were not met. If you provide beer, the recovering alcoholics will bridle; if you provide soda, the anti-soda brigade will give you the stink-eye. It's mentally exhausting. I entertain so much less now — partly due to the layout of my flat (3 floors above the yard) and partly because of not knowing what to serve! But I always take a ton of yummy stuff to share at potlucks!

Then there was the time I was invited to a BBQ (bring your own stuff to grill) at which apparently every other person was a vegetarian. I was literally the only person to bring meat of any sort, and many guests gathered around the grill in wonder/revulsion to watch the sizzle. Sheesh.

As long as the parameters are made clear, I don't see the problem. The main point of getting together on a sunny afternoon is to, well, get together. Would the complaining person rather NOT get invited to a social event than go to the trouble of picking up a package of gourmet sausages? Some people just love to get all insulted – which is what has brought us to this pass in the first place, IMO. Fie.

[deird1]

As long as the parameters are made clear, I don't see the problem. The main point of getting together on a sunny afternoon is to, well, get together.

Absolutely! :)

[menomegirl]

no matter how much trouble the hosts go to, there is somebody complaining that their specific needs were not met. If you provide beer, the recovering alcoholics will bridle; if you provide soda, the anti-soda brigade will give you the stink-eye. It's mentally exhausting.

This is true. We've had to make as many as 4 potato dishes before.

[zeborah]

From New Zealand, and yeah, I've only encountered the "BYO meat" thing from offhand references on the internet: here the hosts provide meat and may or may not ask guests to bring potluck side dishes/desserts. Guests may also bring drinks as a contribution.

I think it's a bit... hmm, a violation of 'assume good faith' to see "BYO meat" as an etiquette thing, but then if someone isn't used to other cultures I can see how, in their utter confusion, they might just not see any other possibility. I definitely don't see it as weird to be utterly confused. I believe more than one newcomer to New Zealand, when invited to an informal party with the traditional phrase "Bring a plate" has concluded that the host's run out of crockery and brought along an empty dinner plate to eat from.

[deird1]

I believe more than one newcomer to New Zealand, when invited to an informal party with the traditional phrase "Bring a plate" has concluded that the host's run out of crockery and brought along an empty dinner plate to eat from.

Heh. Yes, that happens around here as well...

[(Anonymous)]

Grew up in Mississippi, but my parents are not "southern", so I haven't exactly been raised southern. I think I've experienced one "BYOM" barbeque... I can't remember where or when, but I seem to recall it being among financially challenged college students.

At every other barbeque I've attended, the host provides the meat and usually everything else, unless a side dish/dessert is requested in the invitation. A non-BYOM barbeque also allows for smoking a whole brisket or pork loin or other similarly large chunk of meat, which may require cooking to start well before guests arrive.

I don't see a problem with either, as long as guests know what to expect. I suppose it depends on the relationship between the host and the invitees, too - for example, I wouldn't expect my employer to throw a BYOM barbeque; I would expect everything to be paid for by the company. (On the other hand, if I worked for a non-profit, it might make sense to have a BYOM company party.)

[padawanspider.livejournal.com]

Hah, sorry, that anonymous "Mississippi" post was me. :)

[octavia_b]

I'm from Melbourne and the BYO thing is standard. It's become particularly common since we've had children because often a group of families want to get together (say four or five families from school) but it's not fair to expect one family to front up the cost. So someone will say, "Hey, why don't we have a get-together at my place," and everyone will bring meat, salads and drinks and then just share. The 'hosts' are just providing the venue. We would easily do this several times a year and so would our friends.

Long story short, I wouldn't bat an eyelid at BYO anything or everything. The idea is the social occasion.

[libco.livejournal.com]

I'll jump in with the-I think that's weird. I've never heard of a BYOM party. If on a rare occassion the hosts don't provide everything they usually have you bring sides or booze. I've lived in Texas, Virginia, Arizona, West Virginia and military bases in Germany. Now I've been to bbq's where it was sort of a group effort and someone was like I'll bring the burgers or hot dogs etc...

[(Anonymous)]

Also we're Tex-Mex so if my family was doing it-we would definitely provide the meat and the booze.

Barbeques

[1c2k3p4p5c.livejournal.com]

At our yearly New Year's Day barbeque, we give the message that we will provide sausages, salads, drinks and desserts. If anyone wants anything other than sausages in the meat department, they are welcome to bring it.

[guy-who-reads.blogspot.com]

That does seem a little odd, and I've lived in the South and the North (and Canada). What often happens in my circles is the host will provide the very basics - burgers and dogs, and possibly veggie burgers and veggie dogs - and guests are invited to bring any other grillables they wish to indulge in - chicken, or steak, or whatever.

[nimthiriel]

I can't imagine not providing any meat when hosting a barbecue. I'll ask guests to bring sides and bring their own meat IF the standard sausages and burgers aren't to their liking, purely because with a lot of my barbecues I haven't been able to know exactly who's coming and therefore wasn't able to guarantee catering for all diets and preferences (though I would generally also provide some vegetarian and chicken burgers as well).

But I will always provide at least the meat basics and the drinks, because that's what a host does.