alignment musings

[deird1]

Have been watching Once Upon A Time.


So... Rumpelstilzkin.
Lawful evil, or chaotic neutral?

Comments

[hickumu]

Hm...I'm tempted to say Lawful Neutral, actually. You make a deal with him, you will get what you bargained for. It might not be what you wanted, but it will be what you asked for. Which might be a bit more Lawful Evil than Lawful Neutral, true.

He has definitely been Lawful Evil, though, even if he's LE now. Hell, I think before losing Bae, he might have drifted into Chaotic Evil.

I don't think he has ever actually gone back on his word, that I've seen. Of course, I'm not really caught up on S2.

[zeborah]

You make a deal with him, you will get what you bargained for. It might not be what you wanted, but it will be what you asked for.

I kind of want to say Lawful Chaotic because of this. :-)

I think he is canonically Evil and I don't think he's trying as hard as Regina is not to be. The show may think that Belle can reform him, but even if he does have the best of intentions, for her to take on responsibility for someone's moral alignment is an inherently stupid idea for which I can only blame being locked up in a basement for twenty-odd years.

[hickumu]

Actually, it might even be possible to argue that he's True Neutral - he looks after his own ends first, and seems to oppose the goals of others based on how he feels about them, rather than specifically their ideologies.

Belle's "I can fix you" attitude towards Rumpelstiltskin is part of why I have not managed to bring myself to catch up on S2. That and Hook. Made me headdesk one too many times.

[zeborah]

I think I've almost resigned myself to it being not so much Fairyland as Disneyland. Almost. Sort of. Sigh.

One really fantastic thing about season 2 is how you get all these episodes that consist primarily of four women together on a quest. The whole True [Heterosexual] Love Conquers All thing is irritating (is there anyone who doesn't ship Belle and Ruby?) but the season's also doing some interesting things with mothers and daughters (and to lesser extents fathers/sons, mothers/sons, and fathers/daughters) which makes a nice change from shows where only fatherhood is of narrative interest.

In short: so much female agency.

[deird1]

One really fantastic thing about season 2 is how you get all these episodes that consist primarily of four women together on a quest.

This is why I've been wanting to watch season 2, even though people have issues with it. Every time I hear anything about it, people are mentioning Female Character 1 and Female Character 2, and how they were doing something for F.C.3, and wasn't it cool when F.C.4 and F.C.5 went on that trip to see F.C.6? ...and even though I knew nothing about the show at the time, it sounds so interesting and Bechdel-y that season 2 is definitely on my to-be-watched list, regardless of how it screws up.

[timeofchange.livejournal.com]

Hahahaha! An excellent question. As for the answer, no idea.

[deird1]

If I figure it out, I'll let you know... :)

[elisi]

He's a Trickster.

:)

[lutamira]

Hmmmm - don't know how much you've seen, so don't want to spoil, but I'm not entirely convinced the writers have all come down on the same side of this question. I'd say he tends to lean toward the lawful side - sometimes lawful evil, sometimes lawful neutral. Unlike Regina, who is much more chaotic, Rumplestiltskin keeps his word and seems to have a very mathematical approach to his use of power. If there is a chaotic element to his nature, I think it comes in in the duality of 'the dark one' being inherently evil, but residing inside something that was once human (a little Spike-like at times, imho, and I wonder how much J. Espensen has to do with that, since she seems to write most of his major episodes). Unfortunately for me, I don't find the 'good woman loves evil man and so redeems him' trope quite as compelling as the 'evil man loves good woman and seeks redemption' one. We'll see where they take it.

[deird1]

Hmmmm - don't know how much you've seen, so don't want to spoil...

Just finished the first season. (Am now re-watching. Season 2 isn't on dvd yet.) Don't particularly mind about spoilers for this show, though.

Unfortunately for me, I don't find the 'good woman loves evil man and so redeems him' trope quite as compelling as the 'evil man loves good woman and seeks redemption' one.

*nods* Me neither.

[angearia]

Lawful evil.