Tipping

[deird1]

Read an article on tipping (with, yes, quite a lot of discussion about Aussies) this morning, and got interested...

Poll #4972 tipping

Open to: Registered Users, detailed results viewable to: All, participants: 27

View Respondents

How much should you tip in restaurants?

View Answers

0%
0 (0.0%)

0% ...but then, I'm Australian
4 (14.8%)

5%
0 (0.0%)

10%
5 (18.5%)

20%
15 (55.6%)

25%
0 (0.0%)

30%
0 (0.0%)

50%
0 (0.0%)

ridiculously huge amounts
0 (0.0%)

it really depends on the service
3 (11.1%)

Tipping...

View Answers

sucks
5 (19.2%)

is great
5 (19.2%)

is annoying, but can't be helped
12 (46.2%)

I'm Australian, and laugh at people who tip
3 (11.5%)

I'm a waiter, and glare at people who don't tip
2 (7.7%)

why be stingy?
15 (57.7%)

why not just pay the waiters properly?
17 (65.4%)

ticky!
12 (46.2%)

tip!
7 (26.9%)

ticky again!
9 (34.6%)

My general position:
- America, for some insane reason, underpays people and expects them to earn most of their salary through tips. Were I in America, I would (reluctantly) tip everyone. After all, it's not their fault their work conditions stink.
- Luckily, I am in Australia, where tipping is not expected. So I don't tip - unless the place was really brilliant, in which case I might add my spare change to their tip jar...

Comments

[angearia]

For the first question, I hit 20%, but I have a more involved answer. For very good service, 20% is the standard. For okay service, 15% is still good. Also, 15% is to be expected for lunch while 20% is more the ideal for dinner. For outstanding service, you tip over 20%.

Okay, you'll notice that I ticked off ALL the boxes for the second question because they're all true. Tipping sucks, but it can be great. Why not just pay the servers properly? Why be stingy? I'm also a former server and I glare at people who don't tip because it makes me feel like they just tricked me into selling myself into indentured service.

Servers get paid an abysmal amount of money in America. Please, please tip your servers if you come to America and dine out. Waiting tables is one of the most labor intense jobs I've ever had--you're a customer service rep, a hospitality specialist, a maid, a data entry specialist, a cashier and sometimes even a cook. All at the same time while getting paid ~ $3/hour (said money gets eaten by taxes so servers often get checks that amount to $0 anyways). Pretty much the only money a server gets to take home is their tips.

[deird1]

In America? I would absolutely tip.

But it's still a REALLY stupid system. How the US gets away with paying people like that... baffles me, it really does.

[angearia]

It's a shitty system, I agree. It's especially awful when you work yourself to the bone and a stingy person who's demanded all of your time to the point that you've been neglecting other customers then stiffs you.

[deird1]

And $3 an hour??? How do you survive???

(I worked as a waitress for a while. I earned $15 an hour, which was cheap because I was still a teenager...)

[angearia]

Actually, correction. My last waitressing job paid $2.13/hr.

A few years ago, the government tried to make restaurants raise the minimum wage to $3.13/hr, but they reversed that decision because I think too many restaurants were going out of business.

Serving jobs are pretty horrible that way. Bartending jobs are better because you'll either have a base of at least $4/hr + tips or even up to $10/hr + tips.

Sometimes it's awful and you make nothing. Sometimes you can make oodles. It's very capricious. Also, the better you are as a hustler (double entendre intended) the more money you'll make. I've known servers who work a double shift and walk home with $200 for 9 hours of work, but that's not the norm.

I'd average $10-15/hr waiting tables, but the problem is that your hours are often limited, so you don't have the opportunity to work full-time unless you fight for shifts.

[lirazel]

I actually do 15%. ;p

I definitely think the tipping system is stupid and we should just pay waiters properly, but it's too deeply entrenched here to do otherwise. *is jealous of Australia*

[deird1]

You should always be jealous of Australia. After all, we have vegemite, baby echidnas, and meat pie floaters. Plus really nice beaches, Christmas in summer, and, yes, lack of tipping...

[angearia]

Haha, I want to move to Australia. USA is going down the drain. Time to emigrate. Sigh. But which countries will even take an American ex-pat?

[fenchurch]

After all, we have vegemite, baby echidnas, and meat pie floaters.

Oh my gosh... now I rather desperately want a meat pie floater! I haven't had one in ages... there used to be an Australian restaurant in Idaho Falls, ID (of all places!) that I would eat at all the time when I was in town visiting my grandmother.

The owner was an elderly gentleman from Perth who had met a woman in Idaho Falls over the internet and had moved to the US to marry her. The restaurant made fantastic pies (and, subsequently, fantastic pie floaters) but they went out of business a few years ago (I think the owner retired).

More locally, we have the Australian Pie Company down in Burien, but their pies aren't anywhere near as good (still, after this discussion, I may have to look at picking some up anyway).

[gillo]

In Britain we tip a very limited number of people. In a taxi I generally pay to the nearest pound and tell them to keep the change unless they have been particularly helpful, in which case I might give a little more. In a restaurant I usually give 10%, because I know they are taxed on the presumption they get a certain amount each month. Always cash, though, never added to the card payment. And yes, waiters should be paid adequately and it shouldn't be necessary. I usually give my hairdresser a fiver if she's done a good job of hiding my grey locks. Other than that, most people tip removals men and often give a tip at Christmas to postpersons, milkmen and paper deliverers.

Generally tipping is rare here outside those groups, and would normally never go beyond 10%. It's not considered particularly mean not to leave a tip, either. I can't get my head round the tipping culture in the US.

[snowpuppies]

I didn't participate, because I tip about 15%, which is more or less standard. Sometimes I do more, if I felt the server was very good.

That said, I totally agree that the system in America is crap and that restaurants should just pay the damn servers a decent wage and save tips for actually doing a job well done (not just being there).

[slaymesoftly]

I hate tipping. But it's pretty much expected everywhere, and, as you said, people aren't paid a living wage in many jobs (mostly waiters, I think), so you feel like you have to tip them. It's gone completely away from the idea that if someone has treated you exceptionally well, or worked especially hard for you, you can reward them with some extra money that goes directly to them and not to the establishment. However, now, it's become something expected whether it's been earned or not. A waiter in a good (pricey) restaurant or club can make a hell of a lot of money in one night. And, although they have to report a believable figure to the IRS, I'm sure it's easy to slip several hundred dollars past them each week. :)
ETA - and, the expected amount seems to have increased from 15% to 20% in most cases.

[peroxidepirate]

I'm American, hate the system... and work in restaurant management, so I can see both sides of it. YES, we should just pay servers what their job is worth. But if we did that, we'd have to raise our food and drink prices by 15% to 20% -- so an $11 burger would become a $13 burger, a $5 beer would become a $6 beer -- and nobody would pay it. It's an annoying system, but there's no good way out of it.

Though you do see a lot of restaurants adding an "automatic gratuity," usually 20%, to large tables.

[next_to_normal]

and nobody would pay it

But would they really? I mean, if one restaurant decided to do it independently and ended up having prices that were 20% higher than their competitors, then yeah, they'd probably go out of business.

But if restaurants were held to the same minimum wage standards as every other industry, then all restaurants would be raising their prices, so it'd be a level playing field.

I seriously doubt that people would stop eating out altogether. They'd complain about the prices, of course (but they'd do that anyway) and maybe eat out a bit less, but on the whole, people would certainly pay it.

[deird1]

This is why your government should make laws requiring a higher minimum wage for restaurants. Then everyone would have to raise their prices simultaneously...

[next_to_normal]

Agreed!

But then, there are a LOT of things our government should do that they never seem to get around to...

[next_to_normal]

Yeah, it's dumb, and restaurants should just pay their servers better (even if they have to charge more), but until they do, I absolutely think people ought to tip - there is some flexibility on the amount based on service, but I'd say 20% is the norm and you're stingy and rude if you go below 15%.

[(Anonymous)]

It sounds a bit sucky in America. I've not witnessed this myself but there's some stereotype of Americans who are visiting Australia who get into altercations with servers, making them seem arrogant to us aussies. However, I've been told by fellow aussies who have visited America that they understand it, because the standard of service in America is AMAZING! This made me think, what's wrong with the standard of service in Australia? I always feel that most servers I've come across are helpful, pleasant and efficient (and when they're not I tend to blame their lack of training) but I suspect the tip system in America has something to do with this. I suppose, with servers relying on the generosity of tippers, they are more likely to suck up to the customers even when the customer is being unreasonable, because they need the tip. This could be seen as a good thing but not necessarily. They're more likely to favour one customer over other paying customers, more likely to be at the mercy of really jerky customers, maybe less motivation to work as a team (in case someone else gets the tip?)

And it just seems unfair to me that they don't get paid properly.

[angearia]

However, I've been told by fellow aussies who have visited America that they understand it, because the standard of service in America is AMAZING!

That's nice to hear. :)

For servers in America, doing a good job means going above and beyond a customer's expectations. Not only is everything perfect (food as you ordered, timing of the courses, etc) but the server is constantly anticipating your needs before you even have to ask.

Because of the tip system, servers are motivated to treat every customer exceedingly well in hopes of instilling customer loyalty. If a customer likes you, when they come back they'll ask to be in your section. It helps solidify a client base, something that is very useful for those who wait tables over the course of several years. Basically, you want the guests to have the best time they've ever had so they'll come back and they'll ask for you.

They're more likely to favour one customer over other paying customers, more likely to be at the mercy of really jerky customers, maybe less motivation to work as a team (in case someone else gets the tip?)

Well, favoritism would happen with or without the tip system. That's just the way people work, I think. Some are more pleasant to work around than others. But absolutely yes to be at the mercy of jerky customers. Motivation to work as a team--it really depends on the individuals, I think. Some of the tip-hungry people I've worked for were also the best team players; others were completely selfish and lazy and tried to get out of helping others. I think some people just aren't team players.

Heh. I clearly have lots of ~thoughts~ on this that are no doubt boring to others.

[vass]

I don't tip unless I'm in a really fancy restaurant. Actually, I never go to really fancy restaurants, but my parents do on special occasions, and they tip 15%.

[fenchurch]

I remember it feeling really weird not to tip when we were in Australia... it's just so ingrained in us in the US.

As for the poll, the accepted norm is actually 15%, although I tend to tip more. Especially if the service is good (although I've been known to tip a lot less if the service in particularly bad).

[(Anonymous)]

i guess my answer is: It depends.

When i was in the US i tipped whatever the expected amount was then - 10% i think (10? years ago).

In Australia or the UK it has depended on the situation... work dinner function where the total bill is often ~$1000.00 or $1500.00 (20-30 people) i would expect to round it up to the nearest 20 or 50 dollar mark.

Dinner at a classy resturant (bill around the $200.00 mark) i would round to the nearest $10/20 depending on service.

The only time i have felt i made a mistake with a tip tho was in the UK when i accidentally rounded a 24 pound dinner to 40 pounds, and it had been a rather disappointing meal. Considering my mental arithmatic at the time told me i just tipped someone ~45 on a ~65 meal that should have cost ~30 max...

Taxi/take away delivery/bartender etc never tip.

[klme.livejournal.com]

OK, so not entirely about tipping, but it really confused me when I visited the USA and read prices for things, then when I went to pay they added tax on after that. And then often a tip. So when I read the price I was supposed to do a bunch of maths to work out if I would actually be able to afford the item once everything had been added. So confusing and annoying.
That and they expected me to pay to the cent (they call them pennies. Go figure...) rather than the highly superior system I'm used to of rounding up. So $2.38 had to be paid exactly. Eeeesh, so very confusing.
On the subject of tipping, whether they were trying to increase my tip or not, I had some of the best service in the US that I've ever had. Fantastic waiters and waitresses.

[stormwreath.livejournal.com]

I just made a post abou this exact subject on little_details. :-)

Between 5-10% is a standard sort of tip in Britain in a posh restaurant; you probably wouldn't tip in a cheaper place or if it said "Service Included" in big letters on the menu. Taxis, you'd normally round up to the nearest round number and say "Keep the change".

The thing that got to me when visiting America most, though, wasn't the tips in restaurants - I was expecting those - but all the other service staff in places alike hotels and ships and airports. There's always the thought "Are they being helpful, or are they doing this because they expect me to tip them?"

Anecdote time: I was having breakfast in a hotel in Washington DC once years ago, and a waitress came around and refilled everyone's coffee cups, so I naturally looked up at her and said "Thank you" after she'd done mine. And she gave me the most delighted and surprised smile and said "You're welcome"... and I got the distinct impression she wasn't used to getting even such a basic kind of recognition and politeness from her customers. Money has taken its place. Unless it was just my English accent she was reacting to...

[angearia]

I naturally looked up at her and said "Thank you" after she'd done mine. And she gave me the most delighted and surprised smile and said "You're welcome"...

She could've just been pleased by your British accent. I'm only half kidding.

[beer_good_foamy]

I tip in the US and anywhere else where the guidebook (possibly written by former waiters) says to tip. At home, I round it up if the service is above average and if I'm paying cash, which almost nobody does anymore.

I'm wondering who decided that waiters, of all service categories, need to live on tips. And I also wonder how... say, a train conductor or a librarian would react if I tried to tip them. There might be awkwardness.