deird1: chibis of Kitty and Lydia from P&P, with text "fangirls at large" (Kitty Lydia fangirls)
[personal profile] deird1
Guide to characters on Pern

Women:
- If you are a dreamy virgin until deflowered by the love of your life in a quasi-rape scene... you are GOOD.

- If you are sensual and like sex with manly men of manliness... you are EVIL.


Men:
- If you used to sleep with the evil sensual women, but grew tired of them and deflowered a virgin in a quasi-rape scene... you are GOOD.

- If you still sleep with the evil sensual women... you are EVIL... probably. But not as evil as the evil women. At best, you are a minion.


Girls:
- If you are a tomboy... you are GOOD.

- If you care about clothes and your appearance... you are EVIL.

- If you grow up and then care about your appearance... you are GOOD.

- If you grow up and then become slovenly... you are EVIL. And probably sensual.


Benden:
- If you live there... you are GOOD.

- If you like people who live there... you are GOOD.

- If you like their caves... you are GOOD.

- If you like their wine... you are GOOD.

- If you despise the people, the caves, the wine, the weather, the fashion, the food, the music, and anything and everything remotely Bendenese... you are EVIL.


Fire Lizards:
- If you like them... you are GOOD.

- If you dismiss them... you are EVIL. (Unless you're Lessa, in which case you are the BESTEST OF ALL BEST PEOPLE, and everyone who dislikes you will die horribly.)



Here endeth the lesson.

Date: 2012-08-17 02:13 pm (UTC)
redsixwing: Red-winged angel staring at a distant star. (Default)
From: [personal profile] redsixwing
If you are a man and ride a green dragon and get ANY screen time, you are probably catty and EVIL. Also gay.

If you are a woman and ride a non-gold dragon, you are probably catty and EVIL, and also gay.

See also: why I quit reading Pern books, even though fire lizards == adorbz. Le sigh.

Date: 2012-08-17 08:30 pm (UTC)
redsixwing: Red-winged angel staring at a distant star. (Default)
From: [personal profile] redsixwing
I don't even know! /o\ And I totally agree with you on the later books.

I have some very fond memories of the earlier ones - Masterharper of Pern is still my favorite, though - and one of my best family in-jokes is based on fire lizards (long story) and.... and they'll pry my Heralds of Valdemar from my mummified fingers. *hisss*

Pern got to the point where it bothered me more than it was fun. Valdemar hasn't, and hopefully never will, and even if later stuff does, I'll always have The Last Herald-Mage.

Date: 2012-08-17 09:29 pm (UTC)
lliira: Fang from FF13 (Default)
From: [personal profile] lliira
Valdemar got boring to me when the huge Empire invaded and it didn't turn out to be that big a deal. I got the feeling Lackey was bored with the setting. If anyone tries to take By the Sword from me, though, they will end up in pain. Even with the problematic "girly girl is useless girl" stuff in it.

Date: 2012-08-17 04:44 pm (UTC)
elisi: (Couple by kaaatie)
From: [personal profile] elisi
Awwww, you're making me all nostalgic, and faintly remembering that I meant to do something more with my BtVS/Pern crossover fic thing.

Date: 2012-08-17 09:26 pm (UTC)
lliira: Fang from FF13 (Default)
From: [personal profile] lliira
I never could even start getting into the Pern books because the writing style bored me so much. Now I am glad of that.

Date: 2012-08-17 10:18 pm (UTC)
redsixwing: Red-winged angel staring at a distant star. (Default)
From: [personal profile] redsixwing
They are total id-fic.


Haha, yes they are. XD

I'm so glad I have a word for that now. <3

Date: 2012-08-17 10:42 pm (UTC)
vass: Lavan Firestorm embracing his Companion, caption: "His lifebonded?  A horse." (Horse)
From: [personal profile] vass
I never got into the Pern books, but I loved the Brainship/Brawn books and the Tower/Hive books, mainly because I wanted to be a brain in a jar.

What Anne McCaffrey clearly thinks is the sexiest possible narrative trope ever: strong, independent woman meets stronger, more commanding man. He sweeps her off her feet, overcomes all her resistance, they get married, she starts popping out babies, and she never has an independent thought ever again. The narrative shifts to her children, but she sometimes gets page time again so she can be wrong and silly and have her husband (lovingly) put her back in her place.

What Anne McCaffrey clearly thinks is the second-sexiest possible narrative trope ever: older, wiser man who's never met the Right Woman yet, is set to babysit young, wilful girl (aged about eight or nine, or possibly younger.) He falls in love with her, she knows this is the man she will marry one day, and they both settle down to wait for her to be old enough for them to act on these feelings, and everyone around them, including the girl's mother and/or legal guardian, thinks this is totally adorable and not at all horrifying.

Meanwhile, over here in Mercedes Lackey's Id Land, the best possible trope of all tropes: bullied and/or abused child leaves home and goes to a wonderful place where their unique talents are recognised and everyone loves them just as they are. Romantic bonds with intelligent nonhumans are an optional bonus.

Lois McMaster Bujold didn't used to publish her idfic, but now she does, and here it is: the heroine's backstory is that she had lots of older brothers who teased her, and her family didn't value her intellect, and thought she was stupid because she asked questions all the time. But now she's grown up and met a man who does value her intellect. Yay! (I preferred it when she didn't publish her idfic.)

Date: 2012-08-18 12:52 am (UTC)
smurasaki: blond person (neutral)
From: [personal profile] smurasaki
Are you sure the early Vorkosiganverse stories aren't idfic? The Warrior's Apprentice sure makes -my- id happy. (Okay, maybe they're not -her- idfic.)

Then again, depending on how we define idfic, idfic is all that appeals to me. (Though in my case, that means adventure!)

Date: 2012-08-18 03:25 am (UTC)
vass: A sepia-toned line-drawing of a man in naval uniform dancing a hornpipe, his crotch prominent (Default)
From: [personal profile] vass
My definition of idfic is that the author, whether unintentionally or deliberately, is letting their kinks drive the story rather than the other way around.

For instance, David Feintuch likes spanking, so every single book he has ever written[*] has a spanking scene. And they're not books about spanking. They're books about the Navy in space, or a royal succession drama in a high fantasy setting, and suddenly whoops! here's a spanking scene. Not even in a sexual context, just "the main character had to be punished, so his best friend pulled down his trousers and administered a spanking, as you do." That's idfic.

If he set out to write a book about spanking, for people who like spanking, that would not be idfic, it would just be a very specific genre.

[*] Hyperbole. I have only read two of his books. In different, unrelated series. Both contained spanking.

Or there's Mary Balogh, who writes Regency romances, so you'd expect sex scenes. What you wouldn't necessarily expect is that all of her heroes and heroines like outdoor sex. It's like the author can't conceive that not everyone does. There is guaranteed one outdoor sex scene per book.

I'm not sure liking adventure is really enough to catapult a book into idfic. It'd be like if you liked romance, or liked mysteries, or liked friendships, or liked good writing. That's just normal.

Date: 2012-08-18 01:39 am (UTC)
lliira: Fang from FF13 (Default)
From: [personal profile] lliira
What Bujold stories have what you describe? I've never read any of hers with that in them, and it sounds extremely appealing to me.

Date: 2012-08-18 03:05 am (UTC)
vass: A sepia-toned line-drawing of a man in naval uniform dancing a hornpipe, his crotch prominent (Default)
From: [personal profile] vass
Ekaterin in the later Miles Vorkosigan books is like that (starting from Komarr.) And Fawn in the Sharing Knife books is like that.

Date: 2012-08-18 03:10 am (UTC)
lliira: Fang from FF13 (Default)
From: [personal profile] lliira
I don't see that in Ekaterin's story at all. Her entire society denigrates women's abilities, but her brothers seem to be pretty cool, relatively speaking. Not as cool as Miles, but who is? Anyway, I adore that story.

Date: 2012-08-18 03:26 am (UTC)
vass: A sepia-toned line-drawing of a man in naval uniform dancing a hornpipe, his crotch prominent (Default)
From: [personal profile] vass
Her brother who tried to take custody of her son away from her because he didn't trust her to be able to make good decisions for him?

I adore it too, it was just when I started reading The Sharing Knife and went "oh. Clearly this is a thing for her."

Date: 2012-08-18 03:58 am (UTC)
lliira: Fang from FF13 (Default)
From: [personal profile] lliira
I see that as a Barrayaran thing, not a brother-sister thing. Same with The Sharing Knife. If someone writes books in which the society is misogynistic, and there are brothers and sisters, if they don't have brothers sometimes behave in a sexist way towards the sisters, the story doesn't work at all.

But really, it comes down to what someone likes. I like stories set in misogynistic societies in which women triumph. After all, I live in a misogynistic society, and I would like to triumph.

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